Chicken Strip
10-15-2007, 07:30 PM
Mail Box - Shout Outs, Comments And More
http://images.sportrider.com/readersurvey/0704_sprp_02_z+tire_test+.jpgSport Rider welcomes your comments, criticisms, adulation and cash. Send anything and everything (except letter bombs) to Sport Rider, 6420 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90048-5515. Keep in mind that all materials sent to the editors will become the property of Sport Rider magazine and cannot be returned. If you have internet access you can e-mail your thoughts to us at srmail@primedia.com. We reserve the right to cut your sentences into tiny little bits.
Tire Test And The Magic Line
Well done, informative article comparing tire types ("Jeopardy!" Dec. '06). I have just one question:What was your source for the specifications? I've been searching the Internet for manufacturers' specs, especially weight and circumference (the latter for accurate calibration of my Sigma speedometer), with absolutely no luck. Since I'll probably purchase either the Dunlops or Michelins next time, that question is now answered, but what about my existing Bridgestone BT-020s, for example?Jeff SmithCincinnati, OH
We measured all of the tires ourselves for the data listed. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that you'll find a tire manufacturer willing to list such data, on a Web site or otherwise. -Ed.
Thanks for doing that article on the tire comparison in the Dec. '06 issue. It was nice to see a magazine step up to the challenge of doing such a comparison. I personally have been curious about how the tires' qualities compared with one another. I found the results quite surprising, especially with average lap times among the sport tires being so close.Cliff SolyloBurkburnett, TX
It should be remembered that although the average lap times were close among the sport/track day/race tires, we stated in the test that additional time for suspension/chassis setup would have yielded even more gains with the race tires. Also, three-fourths of a second may not seem like much on paper, but it's a substantial difference on the racetrack. -Ed.
I wanted to thank you for the excellent tire article. You had all the right answers to the questions I had about the difference in tires. I have a '97 Honda CBR1100XX. In the summer I was running the Dunlop Qualifier and did a couple of track days on them, and they stuck like glue to the pavement. For the winter I changed over to the Dunlop D220. Good to know that I can still have good traction throughout the winter and spring wet weather.
I would also like to say what a great article and a big laugh I had when I read Jeff Hughes' "The Magic Line" (Bench Racing, Dec. '06) I said the same thing to my wife after going on a ride with several Harleys over the mountains of northwest Arkansas. It's not that I have to go flying through the curvy backroads all the time, but somewhere near the speed limit does make it more in tune with what I'm riding now. No disrespect to those guys, it's just not for me anymore. I used to own a Harley many years ago; just grew out of that "Joe Cool" phase, no matter how bad the bike handles.
Just wanted to say keep up the great work.Travis EddlemanPea Ridge, AR
Thanks so much for the tire test article in the Dec. issue. I appreciate all the effort it must take to thoroughly test each tire and quantify the results into a meaningful story.
As an owner of an '05 Ninja 636, I've been wanting to ask about the front tire size used and what adjustment you guys make to the rear to offset the attitude change. I think you use the more common front size of 120/70-17 rather that the stock 120/65-17. If that's the case, how much did you raise the rear or lower the forks to maintain the stock geometry?
One other unrelated question: When you guys note how smooth the transmission shifts on a test bike, is that with or without the clutch? I typically only use the clutch for first-to-second upshifts and downshifting. With 14,000 miles on the stock clutch, it's still quite smooth shifting.
Thanks again for the great article and magazine over all.John HamiltonArlington, TX
The amount of ride height change (more easily accomplished by raising the fork tubes in the triple clamps) is dependent upon the particular brand of tires. You can easily measure your ride height before changing tires, then measure afterward at the same spot and raise the fork tubes to make up the difference. Our subjective comments on transmission action are both with and without the clutch. -Ed.
As a long-time subscriber of SR, I really enjoyed the Dec. '06 issue. In particular, the "Jeopardy!" tire test. Now this is what I would call a real-world tire test that we the readers/ riders can use. It kind of puts to rest many questions I always see on the message boards. How long before they forget your article? Thank you, and more like it, please!
Also, Jeff Hughes' columns always seem to be written to me. It could be that I too live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Parkway, just the North Carolina part, whereas Jeff is in the Virginia part. Not that for a minute that I can ride like Jeff, but I can read. I've experienced the exact same thing that Jeff writes about in "The Magic Line." Very well put, Jeff. I've put some money in the suspension of my bikes, and each time I do, I wonder why I waited so long to get a "new" bike. Riding to that Magic Line is what it's all about in sport and sport-touring riding. Keep the magic words coming!Dave BricknerMorgantown, NC
The Problem With Typing Before Thinking
Your "Odd Couple" test of the BMW/Suzuki (Nov. '06) indicated the BMW was the "easily the best air-cooled twin we've tested." You have got to be kidding! Maybe you meant it was the best air-cooled twin you've tested for this issue? Have you ever tested air-cooled Ducatis and Buells? Hmm...maybe not. Since I have/had examples of all of the aforementioned bikes in my garage, I can tell you that a Duc (Monster) and Buell XB12R are better sport bikes, period. Why don't you just test air-cooled bikes next time and see if you can validate your assessment of "best air-cooled," or would a comparo of the BMW to other air-cooled sport bikes be unfair?
Which brings me to another test: the sport-touring bikes ("Torture Trek," same issue). What is the Motto Guzzi doing in this group? The Guzzi may be a good candidate for an air-cooled test. OK, you admitted the Guzzi did not belong. Tell the boss it's OK to test just three bikes. All I want is apple-to-apple comparos, lest SR go down the road of mediocrity and become like all the rest of those publications out there.Nicholas J. KarnezisAlbuquerque, NM
Apparently you have not been reading SR very long. Yes, we have tested nearly all the sporting Buells and air-cooled Ducatis and compared them on numerous occasions, and, yes, we can tell you that the BMW would run rings around your two aforementioned bikes. There is no "validation" of our assessment (which was "best performing air-cooled V-twin") necessary. -Ed.
Selective Reading
I enjoyed the sport-touring article ("Torture Trek") in the Nov. issue. However, I have a few questions. You call the Honda ABS "seamless, transparent and nearly flawless," and say the Honda "continues to be the leader in the ABS department." You refer to the Ducati's brakes as "still jerky and cycles noticeably when activated, a far cry from the Honda's seamless action." Yet you rate the Ducati brakes as 8.7 versus the Honda's 8.4. Was it because the ABS can be deactivated on the Ducati?
Also, even though the Ducati is only 0.196 second quicker in the quarter-mile, you rate the engine power 9.3 versus 8.1. I understand subjective feel is important, but wouldn't the power-delivery section be the proper place to rate subjective feel of the engine and the quarter-mile, a very good indication of engine power? You also note the Ducati's "on/off transition is quite abrupt," and there is no such negative comment for the Honda's fuel delivery, yet the spread on the power-delivery section is a 1.2 points. It seems there is a dichotomy between some of your writing versus scoring. Perhaps the Honda was the true winner? What gives? By the way, I don't own an Interceptor.Adrian LittleHendersen, NV
The braking ratings were not solely dependent on ABS action, which is really only used perhaps 5 percent of the time on the street. At all other times, when the ABS is not activated, the Ducati brakes are superior. (Read the section on the Ducati again.) Regarding the engine-power rating, you need to reread the first paragraph of the section on the Honda, then take a look at the dyno chart. And the power-delivery rating is not based on off-idle throttle response alone; all our descriptions on power delivery were stated in the test. -Ed.
Uh, "Nit-Picky Bitch"?Hey, Andrew, I've got a really nit-picky bitch about your otherwise very informative tire comparison in the Dec. '06 issue. My complaint isn't about the article's content, conclusions or timeliness, it's about your choice of prose.
As a subscriber for a decade or so, I've noticed that the staff at Sport Rider can't resist using the tired old word "buns" in describing motorcycle tires. You've "spooned on buns," tested "sticky buns," and it's driving me nuts! Enough with buns already!
You used the stinking term 13 times in the Dec. article alone, and I found myself cringing every time you repeated the stupid word, instead of digesting the informative article as intended. Try interspersing "doughnut" or "hoop" or something if the word "tire" is too vanilla for your editorial tastes.
I don't have a journalism degree, but even I know that you don't overuse a trite descriptor, as is your habit with this "bun" thing. Give it a rest!Rene LaPrevottePlacerville, CA
Clutchless Shifting
I know a Honda VTX isn't a sport bike; however, I wanted to run this by you guys: You are always preaching the advantage of clutchless upshifts, especially at a track day, where it's less fatiguing to the racer and better on the clutch plates. (If I remember correctly, and, no, I'll never have my VTX at a track day.)
I posed the question of clutchless upshifting on some Internet forums, and it seems they're saying if timing isn't perfect it will harm the bike. They listed all kinds of detrimental effects of not using the clutch "as manufacturers recommendation." There are statements such as, "To all of you folks who think clutchless shifting is OK-think again. Unless you want to bear the cost of a complete engine removal and teardown, don't do it! Any good technician should be able to tell if the transmission was being shifted without the clutch. This means that a possible warranty situation could be thrown out." Or stuff like, "When you shift without the clutch, you are in effect applying all the horsepower and torque onto the edges of the gear 'dogs.' Sure, once in a while you will be able to shift without the clutch if you get the timing right, as someone stated. But if you are under heavy acceleration or deceleration and you miss the timing, you will in fact wipe out the edges and/or the dog itself."
In short, do you know if clutchless upshifts are only beneficial to sportbikes and not cruisers? Can I actually harm my bike while performing this time/energy-saving technique with my cruiser?Thomas ElswickWhitesburg, KY
Clutchless upshifting can be done on the vast majority of motorcycles without any harm to the engine, but some bikes require more careful technique-and your VTX is one of them. The reason is because the VTX has a big, heavy crankshaft with a lot of inertia, unlike most sportbikes, which have comparatively light, quick-revving crankshafts. Also, your VTX has shaft drive, which adds significant inertia to the drivetrain, and the transmission ratios (especially the lower ones) are likely spaced far apart. The more flywheel effect (from all that crank inertia) your engine has, and the wider the gear spacing is, the more care required to make the gear change so that inertia doesn't get fed into the next gear that may be rotating too slowly.
This means you have to be higher in the rpm range in order for the shift to be accomplished smoothly. The exact point will vary according to your engine, the bike's overall gear ratios, your throttle setting and your rpm, but you should be able to tell where the shifts begin to feel smoother and less jerky. Wider spacing in the lower gears, especially between first and second, may result in too much of a gap in rotational speed between the crankshaft and transmission to enable a smooth clutchless upshift, so you need to experiment to determine if it can be done or not. The higher gears are usually spaced close enough that it's not an issue at any rpm.
Done properly and smoothly, clutchless upshifting causes no harm to the transmission or other engine components, because you are basically loading the transmission the same way you would if you were using the clutch. We're not sure why this is being made to be so complicated; you're upshifting basically the same way you would normally, just without the clutch.
For further tips on clutchless upshifting, see the Riding Skills Series in this issue. -Ed.
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http://images.sportrider.com/readersurvey/0704_sprp_02_z+tire_test+.jpgSport Rider welcomes your comments, criticisms, adulation and cash. Send anything and everything (except letter bombs) to Sport Rider, 6420 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90048-5515. Keep in mind that all materials sent to the editors will become the property of Sport Rider magazine and cannot be returned. If you have internet access you can e-mail your thoughts to us at srmail@primedia.com. We reserve the right to cut your sentences into tiny little bits.
Tire Test And The Magic Line
Well done, informative article comparing tire types ("Jeopardy!" Dec. '06). I have just one question:What was your source for the specifications? I've been searching the Internet for manufacturers' specs, especially weight and circumference (the latter for accurate calibration of my Sigma speedometer), with absolutely no luck. Since I'll probably purchase either the Dunlops or Michelins next time, that question is now answered, but what about my existing Bridgestone BT-020s, for example?Jeff SmithCincinnati, OH
We measured all of the tires ourselves for the data listed. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that you'll find a tire manufacturer willing to list such data, on a Web site or otherwise. -Ed.
Thanks for doing that article on the tire comparison in the Dec. '06 issue. It was nice to see a magazine step up to the challenge of doing such a comparison. I personally have been curious about how the tires' qualities compared with one another. I found the results quite surprising, especially with average lap times among the sport tires being so close.Cliff SolyloBurkburnett, TX
It should be remembered that although the average lap times were close among the sport/track day/race tires, we stated in the test that additional time for suspension/chassis setup would have yielded even more gains with the race tires. Also, three-fourths of a second may not seem like much on paper, but it's a substantial difference on the racetrack. -Ed.
I wanted to thank you for the excellent tire article. You had all the right answers to the questions I had about the difference in tires. I have a '97 Honda CBR1100XX. In the summer I was running the Dunlop Qualifier and did a couple of track days on them, and they stuck like glue to the pavement. For the winter I changed over to the Dunlop D220. Good to know that I can still have good traction throughout the winter and spring wet weather.
I would also like to say what a great article and a big laugh I had when I read Jeff Hughes' "The Magic Line" (Bench Racing, Dec. '06) I said the same thing to my wife after going on a ride with several Harleys over the mountains of northwest Arkansas. It's not that I have to go flying through the curvy backroads all the time, but somewhere near the speed limit does make it more in tune with what I'm riding now. No disrespect to those guys, it's just not for me anymore. I used to own a Harley many years ago; just grew out of that "Joe Cool" phase, no matter how bad the bike handles.
Just wanted to say keep up the great work.Travis EddlemanPea Ridge, AR
Thanks so much for the tire test article in the Dec. issue. I appreciate all the effort it must take to thoroughly test each tire and quantify the results into a meaningful story.
As an owner of an '05 Ninja 636, I've been wanting to ask about the front tire size used and what adjustment you guys make to the rear to offset the attitude change. I think you use the more common front size of 120/70-17 rather that the stock 120/65-17. If that's the case, how much did you raise the rear or lower the forks to maintain the stock geometry?
One other unrelated question: When you guys note how smooth the transmission shifts on a test bike, is that with or without the clutch? I typically only use the clutch for first-to-second upshifts and downshifting. With 14,000 miles on the stock clutch, it's still quite smooth shifting.
Thanks again for the great article and magazine over all.John HamiltonArlington, TX
The amount of ride height change (more easily accomplished by raising the fork tubes in the triple clamps) is dependent upon the particular brand of tires. You can easily measure your ride height before changing tires, then measure afterward at the same spot and raise the fork tubes to make up the difference. Our subjective comments on transmission action are both with and without the clutch. -Ed.
As a long-time subscriber of SR, I really enjoyed the Dec. '06 issue. In particular, the "Jeopardy!" tire test. Now this is what I would call a real-world tire test that we the readers/ riders can use. It kind of puts to rest many questions I always see on the message boards. How long before they forget your article? Thank you, and more like it, please!
Also, Jeff Hughes' columns always seem to be written to me. It could be that I too live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Parkway, just the North Carolina part, whereas Jeff is in the Virginia part. Not that for a minute that I can ride like Jeff, but I can read. I've experienced the exact same thing that Jeff writes about in "The Magic Line." Very well put, Jeff. I've put some money in the suspension of my bikes, and each time I do, I wonder why I waited so long to get a "new" bike. Riding to that Magic Line is what it's all about in sport and sport-touring riding. Keep the magic words coming!Dave BricknerMorgantown, NC
The Problem With Typing Before Thinking
Your "Odd Couple" test of the BMW/Suzuki (Nov. '06) indicated the BMW was the "easily the best air-cooled twin we've tested." You have got to be kidding! Maybe you meant it was the best air-cooled twin you've tested for this issue? Have you ever tested air-cooled Ducatis and Buells? Hmm...maybe not. Since I have/had examples of all of the aforementioned bikes in my garage, I can tell you that a Duc (Monster) and Buell XB12R are better sport bikes, period. Why don't you just test air-cooled bikes next time and see if you can validate your assessment of "best air-cooled," or would a comparo of the BMW to other air-cooled sport bikes be unfair?
Which brings me to another test: the sport-touring bikes ("Torture Trek," same issue). What is the Motto Guzzi doing in this group? The Guzzi may be a good candidate for an air-cooled test. OK, you admitted the Guzzi did not belong. Tell the boss it's OK to test just three bikes. All I want is apple-to-apple comparos, lest SR go down the road of mediocrity and become like all the rest of those publications out there.Nicholas J. KarnezisAlbuquerque, NM
Apparently you have not been reading SR very long. Yes, we have tested nearly all the sporting Buells and air-cooled Ducatis and compared them on numerous occasions, and, yes, we can tell you that the BMW would run rings around your two aforementioned bikes. There is no "validation" of our assessment (which was "best performing air-cooled V-twin") necessary. -Ed.
Selective Reading
I enjoyed the sport-touring article ("Torture Trek") in the Nov. issue. However, I have a few questions. You call the Honda ABS "seamless, transparent and nearly flawless," and say the Honda "continues to be the leader in the ABS department." You refer to the Ducati's brakes as "still jerky and cycles noticeably when activated, a far cry from the Honda's seamless action." Yet you rate the Ducati brakes as 8.7 versus the Honda's 8.4. Was it because the ABS can be deactivated on the Ducati?
Also, even though the Ducati is only 0.196 second quicker in the quarter-mile, you rate the engine power 9.3 versus 8.1. I understand subjective feel is important, but wouldn't the power-delivery section be the proper place to rate subjective feel of the engine and the quarter-mile, a very good indication of engine power? You also note the Ducati's "on/off transition is quite abrupt," and there is no such negative comment for the Honda's fuel delivery, yet the spread on the power-delivery section is a 1.2 points. It seems there is a dichotomy between some of your writing versus scoring. Perhaps the Honda was the true winner? What gives? By the way, I don't own an Interceptor.Adrian LittleHendersen, NV
The braking ratings were not solely dependent on ABS action, which is really only used perhaps 5 percent of the time on the street. At all other times, when the ABS is not activated, the Ducati brakes are superior. (Read the section on the Ducati again.) Regarding the engine-power rating, you need to reread the first paragraph of the section on the Honda, then take a look at the dyno chart. And the power-delivery rating is not based on off-idle throttle response alone; all our descriptions on power delivery were stated in the test. -Ed.
Uh, "Nit-Picky Bitch"?Hey, Andrew, I've got a really nit-picky bitch about your otherwise very informative tire comparison in the Dec. '06 issue. My complaint isn't about the article's content, conclusions or timeliness, it's about your choice of prose.
As a subscriber for a decade or so, I've noticed that the staff at Sport Rider can't resist using the tired old word "buns" in describing motorcycle tires. You've "spooned on buns," tested "sticky buns," and it's driving me nuts! Enough with buns already!
You used the stinking term 13 times in the Dec. article alone, and I found myself cringing every time you repeated the stupid word, instead of digesting the informative article as intended. Try interspersing "doughnut" or "hoop" or something if the word "tire" is too vanilla for your editorial tastes.
I don't have a journalism degree, but even I know that you don't overuse a trite descriptor, as is your habit with this "bun" thing. Give it a rest!Rene LaPrevottePlacerville, CA
Clutchless Shifting
I know a Honda VTX isn't a sport bike; however, I wanted to run this by you guys: You are always preaching the advantage of clutchless upshifts, especially at a track day, where it's less fatiguing to the racer and better on the clutch plates. (If I remember correctly, and, no, I'll never have my VTX at a track day.)
I posed the question of clutchless upshifting on some Internet forums, and it seems they're saying if timing isn't perfect it will harm the bike. They listed all kinds of detrimental effects of not using the clutch "as manufacturers recommendation." There are statements such as, "To all of you folks who think clutchless shifting is OK-think again. Unless you want to bear the cost of a complete engine removal and teardown, don't do it! Any good technician should be able to tell if the transmission was being shifted without the clutch. This means that a possible warranty situation could be thrown out." Or stuff like, "When you shift without the clutch, you are in effect applying all the horsepower and torque onto the edges of the gear 'dogs.' Sure, once in a while you will be able to shift without the clutch if you get the timing right, as someone stated. But if you are under heavy acceleration or deceleration and you miss the timing, you will in fact wipe out the edges and/or the dog itself."
In short, do you know if clutchless upshifts are only beneficial to sportbikes and not cruisers? Can I actually harm my bike while performing this time/energy-saving technique with my cruiser?Thomas ElswickWhitesburg, KY
Clutchless upshifting can be done on the vast majority of motorcycles without any harm to the engine, but some bikes require more careful technique-and your VTX is one of them. The reason is because the VTX has a big, heavy crankshaft with a lot of inertia, unlike most sportbikes, which have comparatively light, quick-revving crankshafts. Also, your VTX has shaft drive, which adds significant inertia to the drivetrain, and the transmission ratios (especially the lower ones) are likely spaced far apart. The more flywheel effect (from all that crank inertia) your engine has, and the wider the gear spacing is, the more care required to make the gear change so that inertia doesn't get fed into the next gear that may be rotating too slowly.
This means you have to be higher in the rpm range in order for the shift to be accomplished smoothly. The exact point will vary according to your engine, the bike's overall gear ratios, your throttle setting and your rpm, but you should be able to tell where the shifts begin to feel smoother and less jerky. Wider spacing in the lower gears, especially between first and second, may result in too much of a gap in rotational speed between the crankshaft and transmission to enable a smooth clutchless upshift, so you need to experiment to determine if it can be done or not. The higher gears are usually spaced close enough that it's not an issue at any rpm.
Done properly and smoothly, clutchless upshifting causes no harm to the transmission or other engine components, because you are basically loading the transmission the same way you would if you were using the clutch. We're not sure why this is being made to be so complicated; you're upshifting basically the same way you would normally, just without the clutch.
For further tips on clutchless upshifting, see the Riding Skills Series in this issue. -Ed.
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